Dead by Daylightis a game that needs no introduction to horror fans, a veritable museum showcasing horror icons from all across gaming and cinema. Now,Dead by Daylightis introducing yet another well-known face of horror through a collaboration withFive Nights at Freddy’s. This collab will be bringingFNaF’s primary big bad, Springtrap, as the game’s latest Killer, and the backdrop for this memorable collab will be a faithful rendition of Freddy Fazbear’s Pizzeria.
That’s not allDead by Daylighthas in store:newWitcherskins, a “choose your own chapter” approach to the next Killer and Survivor, and a Killer based on real-world folklore are also on the asymmetric horror game’s docket. To discuss this collaboration and the team’s plans, Game Rant sat down with Behavior Interactive’s head of partnership, Matthieu Cote, and Killer designer Jason Guzzo. They were understandably tight-lipped about gameplay specifics regarding Springtrap and the new map, but had lots to say about the design process and other upcoming content.This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Q: What about FNaF and Dead by Daylight do you think resonates so much with their respective players? Do you feel that there are some common qualities between the two?
Guzzo:That’s a really good question. I think what resonates is that, despite being games with linear elements—you always have a starting point and an endpoint—bothDead by DaylightandFive Nights at Freddy’sgive you unique experiences. My favorite thing as a game designer is giving players tools to tell their own stories. I’m not interested in just telling a linear story. If that’s what you want to do, you make movies. My joy is in giving players those tools to create their own moments.
BothFNaFandDBDdo this in different ways.FNaFhas a lot of randomized moments, which let players have those “Oh my god, I barely made it!” experiences. It’s the kind of thing you talk to your friends about, maybe while you’re streaming on Discord or Twitch. And it’s not just you—it’s everyone watching with you. It’s this communal experience where everyone gets to share in that moment.
Dead by Daylightdoes that too,even if you’re not streaming. You’re playing with four other people—friends or strangers—and it creates these moments you want to talk about. Like when someone’s at the exit gate, and you catch them at the last second. I don’t want to call it cinematic, because I think that’s overused, but it’s definitely special and unique. Those are the kinds of stories you tell your friends about.
As a designer, I love seeing that. I go on the subreddit, I go on YouTube, and I see people talking about their experiences—like, “Look what I did with my last two killers, Chucky and Dracula.” It’s so cool to see people exploring the mechanics we built and making their own stories with them. That’s what I think tiesFNaFandDBDtogether. They’re both franchises that give players that space to create and share those memorable moments.
Q:FNaFis all about jump scares, whileDBDgets a lot of its horror elsewhere. How did you transposeFNaF’s brand of horror intoDBD? Did you find that difficult?
Guzzo:It was certainly a unique challenge. I’m more of a top-down designer—I attempt to figure out the aesthetic experience I want people to feel, and then I build the gameplay mechanics around that. So that was the first thing:Five Nights at Freddy’sis about jump scares. That’s what you play for. There’s other stuff—like management elements—but really, it’s about those big “oh sh**!” moments.
The challenge was figuring out how to translate that toDead by Daylight. I guess I can tell you that yes, there are jump scares. It’s part of the gameplay. That’s all I can say for now.
Q: FNaF boasts a lot of iconic characters. What led the team to decide on Springtrap among them?
Guzzo:I mean, he’s the big bad, right? There are so many iconic characters in that universe—Five Nights at Freddy’shas been around for ten years, and somehow, there are like fifty-some iconic characters. But you don’t go for second place. You don’t reach for the second bad; you go for the main one. You don’t reach for the Riker—you reach for the Picard. (Is that a reference I can make?) So, yeah, Springtrap was the natural direction to go.
Cote:Just to add to that, when we start these conversations, we usually come in with an idea of what we think it should be. But then we sit down with the license holder and ask them, “What do you think your fans want to see?” Even though we have our own ideas—and some of us are actually fans ofFive Nights at Freddy’s—they know their audience far better than we do. It turned out that we were on the same page right away, agreeing that this was the right direction to take.
Q: What kind of player do you think will enjoy playing as Springtrap?
Guzzo: You’re gonna hate my answer for this because it might sound generic, but I promise you it’s not as generic as it seems. I think it’ll appeal to mostDead by DaylightKiller players because we found this space where different playstyles—projectile players, chase players, melee players—they can all find ways to make it work.
Like I said, my goal was to give as many tools as possible. It’s the samephilosophy we had with Dracula, where you could just play as the wolf the entire game if you wanted. Go nuts. It was the same idea here—I wanted as many types of players as possible to jump in and say, “Oh, this works for me.” And you don’t have to use everything at your disposal. If you like playing as a melee character, you don’t have to use projectiles or focus on chases or loops. You can explore it however you like.
Sorry, I know that’s a super generic answer.
Q: After nearly 10 years ofDBDbeing online, have there been any major lessons learned that come to mind? Are there things that you do very differently now than back when you started?
Obviously, everything is different now. When we first shipped this, it was with a team of about 30 people. Today, there are over 350, maybe even 400 people working on it day in and day out. We used to talk to a small number of people—now it’s 5 million people a month playing this game. It’s insane.
I think what comes to mind right now, especially since we’ve been doing a few of these interviews and reflecting on it, is that we need to keep having a good time doing this. I think maybe we lost sight of that at some point—at least some of us, at least for me. You get stuck with your nose to the grindstone. The cadence is really intense, with constant releases back-to-back.
But then we remember why we started doing this: because we’re gamers, and we wanted to make a game we wanted to play, something that didn’t exist yet. You’re going to see more of that energy coming back. Things like the new game modes—the 2v8 mode, the Lights Out mode—and stuff like the “Choose Your Own Chapter” are perfect examples of ushaving fun withDead by Daylight. That’s something we absolutely need to remember.
Q: I’m curious about the “choose your own chapter” approach. Is there an outcome you’re secretly hoping for?
Cote:The thing is, there are so many options—literally, the system we’ve created has so many branching possibilities. Now, we haven’t designed and concepted every single path yet, but we have a few of the first questions mapped out and some of the other branches too. It could lead to…well, it’s not just hundreds; it’s probably thousands of different options.
Honestly, I’m not even that focused on the resulting chapter. I think it’s going to be great no matter what, because we tend to do really cool, original stuff. But I think the journey—the ride of it—is going to be super fun and interesting. And you’re right, I can’t really think of any other examples of people doing something quite like this.
I’ve seen open dev concepts where people are super transparent, like indie developersTwitch-streamingtheir coding sessions. There’s a bit of that in what we’re doing, too. We want to lift the veil, give people a chance to peek into our process, and show them, “This is how we create original chapters,” at least to some extent.
So yeah, I think it’s going to be a really interesting journey.
Q: As for the folklore horror plans, have you already decided on who you’re going with?
Cote:That one’s decided. It’s not finished, of course, but yeah, it’s super fun. It’s a really interesting one.
That’s the thing, right? There are so many impressive boogeymen that live under people’s beds all around the world. Horror is…well, for some people, it’s extremely personal. It’s the stories their grandmother told them when they were kids. But for the rest of us, it can be an introduction to something genuinely scary.
And that’s the thing—horror touches on something fundamentally human. It’s universal. So yeah, it’s going to be a lot of fun.
Guzzo:Just to add on a quick note, because I’m sure some people will bring it up: We always do our best—and will continue to do our best—to be sensitive. Some of these folklore characters, and “monsters”, are very culturally significant. In some cases, it’s even taboo to say their names.
That’s something we’re constantly talking about, constantly making sure we’re not stepping on any toes we shouldn’t. In the end, we’re making a game, and we don’t want anyone to feel like we’re making light of their culture.
Cote:It’s a great segue into your previous question: something we’ve learned over the years. We used to approach these things a little more… not carelessly, but certainly without as much thought. We didn’t have those sensibilities, and we didn’t have the right questions being asked.
Now, it’s something we take much more seriously. We have consultants, and we actively reach out to people around the world who have lived through these things to ensure we represent them with the respect they deserve.
Q: What is your philosophy towardDBD’s horror? How do you approach terrifying your players?
Cote:Gleefully!
Guzzo:I think horror comes in so many different flavors. WhileDead by Daylighthas its own identity, who knows? Maybe at some pointwe’ll do horror comedy. The reality is, we already have Ash Williams in the game, right? And that’s exactly it—Ash is a perfect example. Horror comes in so many flavors, and Ash does too.
I thinkDead by Daylightis like a stew of all that. It’s like the New York City of horror—just a cultural melting pot. If something is cool, we want to explore it and do it justice. We don’t just think, “Oh, Springtrap will sell a lot, we’ll make money off of him.” There are no people on the team whose job it is to think like that.
Guzzo:Obviously, it’s a business, and we have to make money. But none of the dev team is sitting around thinking, “How can we sell this the best?” Our goal is to ask, “How do we do justice to these IPs, franchises, and characters—whether it’s a unique character, a franchise character, or a licensed one?” That’s really the goal.
As for the flavor ofDead by Daylight, it’s horror as a whole. We try to be like an umbrella—almost like an ambassador for horror—saying, “Horror comes in a lot of flavors, and they’re all amazing.” Even the bad movies are fun. I’ve watchedplenty of terrible horror movies, but I still love them. It’s just a staple of the genre.
If you love horror movies, you have to love bad movies sometimes.
Guzzo:It’s just part of it. But there’s always magic in it. Look atsomething likeBlair Witch. They made $150 million on a budget of maybe $10,000. If that.
That’s the old Chris Rock joke—they made that movie on $10,000, and there’s somebody walking around with $9,900 in their pocket.I love that movie. It’s one of my favorites.
But, to go back to it—sorry, I tend to go on tangents—we don’t thinkDead by Daylighthas one specific flavor of horror. We attempt to embrace the genre as a whole, wherever it comes from, and do justice to it. We want to go to our players and say, “Hey, this is a cool thing we did, and we want you to enjoy it and explore it.”
Cote:I think it’s wonderful, because for the last few years, I’ve talked a lot aboutDead by Daylightbeing like the Hall of Fame of horror, or the Museum of Horror. But I think the “New York City of horror” is an even better way to describe it, especially considering what it’s become. It’s not just a clean place where people come to discover the legends of the past. It’s a bit of a dirty place where you jump in and get assaulted by all the different ways that horror can be represented—the small ones, the big ones, the ones you don’t recognize from anywhere. You’re like, “What the hell is that?”
And you realize, that’s the unknown. You don’t know about the unknown. All of these things are part ofwhatDead by Daylightis about. I think we’ve created something much bigger than just a pedestal to put other things on.
I’ll steal that from you, though.
Guzzo:Yeah, I might be a little bit biased, because I was just in New York City last weekend, so it’s kind of still in my brain.
Cote:So it’s exactly like New York City, except for the smell.
Q: Is it better or worse?
Cote:Yes. [Laughs]
Q: Earlier, you mentioned thatDBDgoes through “eras.” How would you describeDBD’s current era?
Guzzo: The best one! The current era is always the best one, right? It’s hard to define.
Cote:It’s hard to tell when you’re in it, right? It’s always the thing. I don’t think people in the Renaissance were calling it the Renaissance.
Guzzo:That’s very true. But I think,if you look at horror in film, you have eras. In the 50s and 60s, you had the monster movies, and horror always reflects social concerns. Like,Godzillawas about the atomic bomb. So, you know, I think we kind of fall into that. I don’t know if we’ve fully embraced it yet, but we try to spread ourselves out. At some point, you might find that we focus on something like classic movie monsters, or maybe we do something with Iron Maiden.
For example, we could look atEddie from Iron Maiden. What if Eddie was a killer? I’m not spoiling anything. That’s just me theorizing off the top of my head. I don’t want anyone thinking that Eddie’s actually a killer. But you know, maybe in the future, we’ll explore things like that—an era of iconic music figures, like James Hetfield from Metallica as a killer. Of course, I’m just riffing here, but I think it’s all about the maturity of the team. And, just so you know, I’ve been calling Taylor Swift… she’s not picking up my calls.
Guzzo:I got your reference with theErastour. I see what you’re saying. Early on, the team was smaller. I wouldn’t say immature, but definitely not as mature in terms of the process. So, the earlier killers were a bit more simple gameplay-wise. Not that they were easy—everyone knows how difficult it is to play as the Nurse, even though it’s a one-button killer. But now, you can see the killers are much more complex, with more depth to dive into.
I wasn’t around early on, so I’m not sure if this was part of the conversation back then, but now we’re very conscious of what the skill floor and skill ceiling of each killer are. We need to think about whether the difficulty of the killer matches the players’ skill levels. A lot of our players have been around for a long time and are really good, so we don’t want to make killers where the skill floor is here and the skill ceiling is here. They’ll play for 10 minutes and get bored.
I wouldn’t say the era of killers follows the same pattern as film, but in terms of gameplay, we’re in this era of how we can do really interesting game design. We say “complex, not complicated.” Youwant complex characterswith depth in their mechanics, but it shouldn’t be difficult to play. That’s what we’re exploring more these days. Not always, of course—some killers are more straightforward—but, from my point of view, this is the era we’re in: the complex, high-skill-ceiling era of killers.
Cote:I think it’s really difficult to synthesize where you’re at in the moment because you’re living it. I think that’s the point, right? But the trend I can see, especially since I spend a lot of my time working on future projects—because I work on potential licenses for 2027 and 2028 right now—is that when I look at what we’re doing now, I can see a lot of the fun coming back, along with wilder ideas. And the focus now is how do we ensure it’s not just about the chase itself, right?
Dead by Daylightisn’t just about that anymore. It used to be a game of hide and seek, of tag, essentially, at its core, with a veneer of horror on top. And that’s why it worked. But today, it’s so much more than that. I think we’re going to see a lot more expansion in what it means to beDead by Daylight, expanding our definition of horror. And I’m totally here for that.
I think there’s something to the music idea. I’m picturing bands like Slipknot and GWAR.
Guzzo:I have a whole idea. It’s all in my head. It’s called “The Monsters of Metal. It’s all there. Don’t worry.
Q: You do a lot of collabs, and they’re often quite different from one another. How did thisFNaFcollab differ from past ones?
Cote:Not particularly in the sense that the process itself is always the same. There’s a lot of conversation at the beginning where we try to see if we both agree on what we want to do, what we want to get out of this. Because if we can’t agree on that, then it’s not even worth starting to think about drafting a contract or anything. And immediately, it was clear—everybody agreed that this is what it should be. “Yes, it’s a great idea.” “Okay, we can find common ground.” We both want it to happen. If we start from there, then the rest are details, and we can iron them out. Obviously, it takes a while, and there are a lot of conversations, but it was pretty straightforward.
Jason likes to say that those two gameplays are completely different, and it’s true. But they’re also both about—what I mean by this—is not competitive sports. It’s really about, “What levers can I pull to make the player feel something?” And on both sides, it essentially boils down to that. It’s what we try to do inDead by Daylight—we try to make you feel things and give you an infinite number of moments. Moments where you can go, “Oh my God, you wouldn’t believe what happened in the game yesterday that I was playing.” And that’s at its core. That is very, very close to theFive Nights at Freddy’sexperienceas well, right? It’s a series of moments, almost infinite, where you can just feel things very strongly.
I’d say that there were collaborations we’ve done in the past where there was a bigger gap to cross. This one was pretty close.
Q: What was it like working with Matthew Lillard for his role as Springtrap?
Cote:I wasn’t there personally. It was one of those recording sessions where I couldn’t attend. Also, we don’t want to have 27 people there, so not everyone is allowed to be in. I didn’t muscle my way in, but he was just a consummate professional. He was great to work with—super nice. And when he decides to do something, he’s very generous with his time. The end result is that we get this really, really cool character in the game, which is awesome.
Q: Of the past 30 or so collabs you’ve done, do any stick out to you as personal favorites?
Guzzo:I mean, I think I have to be biased. I’m fairly new to the team, and this is my third killer, and they’ve all been licensed.I got to do Chucky—what an icon, what a way to start your career at a place. They were like, “Oh, you get to do Chucky.” I thought I’d be doing something a little more low-key, but Chucky will always have a special place in my heart. He was my first killer, and he’s one of my favorites. I got to revisit all the movies.
Then I got to do Dracula—Castlevania’s Dracula. Who on earth gets to say, “I got to designCastlevania’s Dracula”? Not many people. So, honestly, saying I have a favorite or one I prefer over the other is like asking me to choose my favorite kid, and that’s just not possible. Chucky will always have a special place in my heart.
Everybody’s got a favorite kid, I suppose, but it’s frowned upon to say it out loud. That’s why I only had one kid—didn’t want to deal with that. But yeah, no, I don’t have a favorite. I just like them for different reasons. Chucky was my first killer. We got to do the first third-person killer, which was really cool. Dracula was the first three-in-one—three small killers in one. And then there’s this one… redacted, redacted, redacted. It’s really awesome, and I promise it’s cool. You’ll see it soon.
But no, I couldn’t pick a favorite in terms of having designed them. But in terms of playing them, Chucky is my boy. I love playing as Chucky, though I have to admit I’m pretty bad at Dracula. I hate to say I’m bad at my own killer, but it is what it is. So yeah, Chucky is my boy when it comes to who I’m best with, design-wise.
Cote:It’s tough. Yeah,Silent Hillwas specialbecause it was the first time we were working with a video game chapter. We had doneLeft 4 Deadin the past as a small collection, butSilent Hillwas serious. For many people, it’s the reason why we make video games today—it’s a legend. Working with these people directly, sitting down with them, showing them how we painted their creation using the brushes ofDead by Daylight, if you will, and having them go, “Wow, that’s really cool, we like it”—that was incredibly humbling and validating. I think it also outwardly legitimized us in a significant way.
And then I have to say, Bruce Campbell and Nick Cage—working with these guys and being able to witness those recording sessions firsthand… that’s just insane.
Q: When designing killers, how do you approach them with regard to the various capabilities survivors can have?
Cote:If you get down to the combination of perks, yeah, we sort of have to start by giving up in a very real way, right? There’s no way for us to test all the combinations of every possible loadout against every possible combination of four survivors, each with their own loadout. There’s no way. Fortunately, like we were saying earlier, we don’t design competitive sports. We design things that will create a really cool experience. Then we put it out for the PTB, watch millions of people try to break it, and then we tweak it.
Guzzo:Yeah, and I think, as a game designer, my job is to design the killer, but how I approach it is always considering the play experience from both the killer’s perspective and the survivor’s perspective. That’s just how I approach it. Yes,Dead by Daylightis the power fantasy ofbeing the monster in a horror movie, but you have four other players who are willing participants in that, and you have to make sure it’s fun for them too. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don’t, but we’re doing our best and tweaking it as best we can.
I think just approaching it agnostically and saying, “What will be the most fun for both sides?” is key. I know there’s a lot of talk in the community aboutDead by Daylightbeing very killer-sided or very survivor-sided, but it depends on what you mean. The reality is, we’re focused on both sides because we want everyone to have fun. We want the player experience for survivors to be just as interesting as the killer’s experience when it comes to a new chapter.
With this chapter, I’ve pushed it a little bit. I can’t really talk about it, unfortunately, but I’ve really pushed to make sure the survivor experience is reminiscent of theFNaFgames in a certain way, and leans into it, honoring theFNaFuniverse and gameplay in a way we haven’t really done inDead by Daylightbefore. So, I’m really excited for everyone to check it out, and definitely let me know how you feel about it!
Cote:Going on a small tangent here, I thinka lot of asymmetrical gameshave tried to do what we do over the years. One thing I’ve often seen as a mistake—and I’m saying this from seeing it repeated—is creating a killer role where the killer has to play a certain way to create a fun experience for the others, like a DM would in aD&Dsession.
If you approach it that way, it can work, as long as it’s a very closed system where you’re playing with your friends. But as soon as you open it up to random people joining, it makes it exceedingly difficult to design good experiences. We have to make sure that, in this case, ifsomeone plays Springtrapand they’re being selfish or playing in a way that’s only fun for them, it still creates good moments for the other side. And that’s an extremely subtle and difficult thing to achieve.
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